EP. 43 — CONVERSATIONS: FORMER SENATE MAJORITY LEADER TRENT LOTT

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Weston Wamp: I'm Weston Wamp, and this is “Swamp Stories,” presented by Issue One. 

Weston Wamp: Last month, a key bipartisan bill called the Electoral Count Reform and Presidential Transition Improvement Act was introduced by Senator Susan Collins of Maine along with eight other Republican cosponsors and seven Democratic cosponsors. The intent was to update the antiquated Electoral Count Act of 1887. 

Before 2020, few Americans had probably heard of the Electoral Count Act, the piece of legislation that provides the framework governing the casting and counting of electoral votes, including Congress’ role in the vital process. 

But the aftermath of the 2020 presidential election demonstrated that this law was rife with arcane language and ambiguities that could be exploited by bad actors willing to overturn the will of the people. Our ability as a nation to elect a president and peacefully transfer power — a hallmark of our democratic system — could be compromised without fixing these vulnerabilities before the 2024 election. The alternative could mean a constitutional crisis. 

Among other things, the bill ensures that only one single slate of electors can be submitted to Congress, and confirms that slate must reflect the results of the presidential election in that state. It also affirms the role of the vice president on January 6th is strictly ministerial, and raises the threshold for objections in Congress. 

On this special episode of Swamp Stories, I spoke with Trent Lott, former Republican Senate Majority Leader from Mississippi and a key advocate for this bill. We spoke about the bipartisan group of senators that helped drive the effort, the importance of public confidence in our system, and why the bill needs to pass this year. 

Weston Wamp: Well Senator, thanks for joining us for this important conversation about a reform issue that has gotten bipartisan traction. And of course as you know in this day and age bipartisan traction on any legislation says a lot, but particularly rare on a reform issue as important as reforming the Electoral Account Act. Just to open up here, can you speak to the importance of a bipartisan approach to updating this 19th century piece of legislation?

Trent Lott: Well first of all Weston it is good to talk to you about this. There's no question this has been a bipartisan effort and a lot of credit goes to Senator Susan Collins and Senator Manchin and others. I talked to Senators Cornyn and Coons on both sides now, people realize this is something that needed to be done. It doesn't have to get into a really politically divisive atmosphere. They did their work in the bipartisan group and now the Rules Committee has already had a hearing.

Trent Lott: But there's no question that over the years it's become obvious that this antiquated law needed to be tightened up. There's no question that the role of the vice president should be strictly ministerial, he can't overturn electoral college votes from a state, and then the states have got to have just one slate of electors, they can't have a couple, and it's got to be signed off on by the governor.

Trent Lott: I thought they did the right thing by saying under extraordinary circumstances they could go through a judicial process, which from a state like mine, Mississippi, where we've had tornadoes and hurricanes I mean you could have an emergency where electoral college couldn't be completed. So there's a process to deal with that.

Trent Lott: And then also over the years, and I sat in on the electoral count several times, but in recent years there's been one senator, one house member that would object and then they'd have to go through all the electoral count. They've raised the percentage now to I believe one fifth of the House and Senate would have to object to the electoral count before it could be reviewed. So they've done good work. It needed to be done, and I hope that the leadership on both sides of the aisle will find a way to move this legislation in September.

Weston Wamp: Well speak for a moment on the position of Senate majority leader, minority leader, these positions are so unique in the American tradition. Many of Senator McConnell, leader McConnell's critics I think were stunned going back months ago when he expressed openness to this reform. Having had that same job, having served with leader McConnell, speak to why you think is he an institutionalist, is that what you think is the attraction or the open mindness to this reform?

Trent Lott: Well, first of all I had the good fortune when I was majority leader and minority leader, the leader on the other side, the democratic side of the aisle, was Tom Daschle. We talked all the time, we had a good relationship. I don't think that same relationship exists between McConnell and Schumer.

Trent Lott: However McConnell is right, there's some things you need to do for your country. And this is not a partisan issue. Everybody should agree that the Electoral Count Act needs to be reviewed and tightened up, it's not partisan. But McConnell came out for the bipartisan infrastructure bill and he has shown some willingness to work on other issues. He is the minority leader, it's easier when you're the majority leader. I was always forward leaning, I always played ball like I was an SEC quarterback. I threw the long ball every play, I wanted to score. I wanted to get things done. That's not the MO right now in Washington, generally it's okay, “we can't do this. Okay, we can't do that.” But the Electoral Count Act I think it's got a chance and I think Senator McConnell deserves credit, and Senator Schumer too if he'll move it to the floor.

Weston Wamp: You probably got some insight into who the drivers are, those senators are, who may not be out front like Senator Collins, who do you think is driving this thing and given it oxygen that the general public may not realize is willing and interested in this important reform.

Trent Lott: Well actually Senator Klobuchar, who is the democratic chairman of the Rules Committee has been supportive. And one of the most important supporters is Senator Roy Blunt of Missouri, who is the senior Republican on the Rules Committee, which is the committee of jurisdiction. He's in the leadership on the Republican side. He was a Whip in the House for years and so he's the kind of senator we really need. Unfortunately he's retiring this year, but having him involved, and I spoke to him last night about how the hearing went, how did he feel about it, could they get a markup in the Rules Committee and get it to the floor of the Senate and he talked very positive about it. So those are two important senators. Senator Cornyn of Texas, even though he's not in the elected leadership he was Whip, he knows how to get things done and I'm sure he'll be supportive of this too.

Weston Wamp: Briefly how would you describe the stakes here? I mean, this is an arcane piece of legislation, most of the American public probably doesn't know what it is, doesn't understand that it was critical to some of the theories around what role Vice President Pence could have played in 2020. But what do you think the stakes are if you don't reform the Electoral Count Act?

Trent Lott: Well it's not of the magnitude of the appropriations bills or the defense bill, the National Defense Act, other pieces of legislation, but as a part of our democracy and our way of voting it is important. And by the way it's only two and a half years until we'll have another presidential election so we need to get this cleared up. We saw in this last time and the last couple of Electoral Count Act activities by the Congress, this needs to be done, it should be done now, and it should pass overwhelmingly. I think it will, that the leadership has just got to be prepared to put it on the schedule and vote on.

Weston Wamp: Last question. Is it realistic at a time of dwindling confidence in American institutions, is this the type of thing the American people could see the U.S. Senate take a lead on, it leads to as a snowballing type effect on our confidence that our leaders can come to the water's edge from time to time?

Trent Lott: Well there are a lot of groups out there that have been supportive about this, including Issue One, they really have done good work. This is not a bill that's going to fix inflation or lower gasoline prices or protect the shores of our country, but it's an important part of our system of government. How we elect our presidents is not just by popular vote it is by the electoral count and that's the way it should be, it should stay. So I think in the bigger picture it's important and I hope and I pray and I will be involved in trying to see that it gets done.

Weston Wamp: Well Leader, thank you for your time and honored to have you with us.

Trent Lott: All right Weston.

Weston Wamp: And thanks for your efforts in support of this historic reform albeit one many of us didn't know we needed a few years ago.

Trent Lott: That's right. Thank you for your time Weston, good luck.

Weston Wamp: Thanks for listening to “Swamp Stories” presented by Issue One, the country's leading political reform organization that unites Republicans, Democrats, and independents to fix our broken political system. Please subscribe to the podcast and share it with your friends. Even better rate and review it on Apple Podcasts to help us reach more listeners. You can find out more at SwampStories.org. I'm your host, Weston Wamp. A special thank you to Executive Producer Dokhi Fassihian, Senior Producer Evan Ottenfield, Producer Sydney Richards, and Editor Parker Tant from ParkerPodcasting.com. “Swamp Stories” is recorded in Tennessee, edited in Texas, and can be found wherever you listen to podcasts.

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